Ok so I was starting a base file transfering over all of my settings from my 3.5.6 software to my new software .

The question is I put methanol and i put 900 whp estimated it calculated a 300+ lbs injectors needed.

Does the Tec 3 build the VE based on this...

So if I have 160lbs injectors should I play with the WHP needed to make 160lbs that way the tec3r can calculate the correct VE. Then I can just adjust as I go along.

thank you

Edgard

The wizard does not calculate any VE values. It only comes up with a UAP (or TOG with WinTEC4) value. You want to use crank horsepower because even though you don't necessarily get use all the power at the crank, you are still making that power and need the fuel to support it. If WinTEC is telling you that you need huge injectors, you probably need more of them.

Assumiong that your running a 4-cyl with a turbo and methanol, to make 900 crank horsepower you'll need 4 roughly 300lb/hr injectors. Up that to 8 injectors and the 160's will work.

i understand the concept of the calculation..

i will be runing e85 and uing 4 primary 1600cc and secondary 1600 ccs also.

Wha I am saying is that if i put the right WHP that equals 160lbs of injectors will the VE not be dead on ??? or real close ???

It will, but you need to calculate from crank horsepower, not wheel horsepower. The horsepower may be lost in the transmission, but it was still made. And there was fuel burned to make that horsepower. It needs to be accounted for or you fuel calculation will be off. The same goes from horsepower lost to turning a super charger. The result is a net gain, but there was horsepower made that was used up to turn that super charger. It needs to be included in any calculation you do.

I'm still working on finding a place I can put that file. I'll post a link as soon as I have it up.

Running staged like you plan, you'll need to start out with a UAP that is lower than the math (wizard) tells you for your projected FWHP. That way, you will get the most useful range out of your VE table with the small primary injectors as you start to tune the engine in. There will be a point where you will approach max duty cycle with the primary injectors as you move up in MAP, whatever you pick that percentage to be. Maintain that preferred duty cycle for the remainder of the primary VE table up into the higher MAP region. Where the primaries went to max DC is where you'll need to start ramping in the staged injectors. You may need to build a step in the primary VE table to afford a smooth fuel delivery transition where the staged injectors first come into the picture.

In my particular case, for 1002 hp the wizard calculated 237.17 lb/hr injectors @ 10.24 UAP. For me to get the most useful range out of the VE table, with the given limitations of +50 and -50 percent, I finally ended up with a TOG of 8.1 and an IOT of .625.

Most likely you will need to play with the TOG and IOT for your particular case, but just realize that the wizard will not be much help in a staged injection scenario.

thanks for your reply. What I was looking at is if I used the math calculator to give me the AUP for 160lbs of fuel which is the injectors that I have. Then my Table will be pretty much 0 and I will not have to adjust too much in the low range.

Ohhh, if only it were that easy. Let me know how it works out.

I am trying to set it up for the low to be ready and where I have to tune the high portion.. On my last setup I had to take away liek -30 all the way in the loww range.

If you're needing to take a lot away for idle, instead of taking it out in the VE table, INCREASE TOG by about 30% and then REDUCE IOT by the same amount. That should keep your top end the same and lean out the idle.

It's also possible it's rich because you have a kind of wild cam and it's not pulling much vacuum at idle. If this is the case, you'll either need to take the fuel out with the VE table or use TPS/MAP blend to get the manifold pressure artificially lower which will reduce fuel at idle.

Jon I will be starting a new complete calibration with my new setup. I just want to know what will be the best way to tune it so I do not have too much adjustment down low.

Let the wizard calculate TOG and start the car. ONce the engine is running go up and down with IOT until you have a decent idle. Remember that negative IOT values are valid and do not mean that there is something wrong. Once IOT is dialed in more or less, subtract IOT from TOG (if it's negative that means TOG will get bigger). This will restore the maximum pulsewidth to what the wizard expected. Start free reving the engine and play with TOG until it will do so cleanly. Once you have done that, you're probably done with TOG and IOT, take the car to the dyno. The fuel probably will not be dead at this point, but it should be fairly close. When on the dyno, work in the VE table. If you find yourself needing to make large changes in the VE table, zero it back out and adjust TOG and/or IOT accordingly. As you tune more, you'll find that you are able to hit the tOG and IOT closer to begin with and starting the VE table over will happen less and less.

let me get this straight. So lets say my TOG is 16 but the car does not idle good. I add OIT to 1 and it works fine. They zero out the OIT and change the tog to 15 ?

No, once you have an IOT that works, modify TOG to get the same pulsewidth you had before (so if you had 0 IOT and 16 TOG, and you change to 1 IOT, you'll want to change TOG to 15 to ge the same final result. 16 - 1 is 15). Don't modify IOT any more. Once TOG and IOT are correct, you should be able to leave them alone and work in the VE table.

Jon, this is really helpful advice when starting a new bin file. Thank you.

I'm curious, once I adjust IOT for a good idle then adjust TOG back to the same pulsewidth as before, won't idle be affected again? At that point do you just fix idle in the VE table?

How much changing TOG will affect idle is dependant on how much vaccuum you show at idle. If idle vaccuum is below about 40kPa, changing TOG will have very little effect. Since the adjustment of TOG is limited to 1/8ms increments, that will often dictate the point that you move over to the VE table. I don't usually worry about it too much, and make sure idle is stable, isn't stupid rich and that the engine will rev clean (read: it will go as high as you want, not that it isn't rich) in neutral. Once I have that it's usually OK to move over to the VE table. It is possible to get closer before moving over, but I find that isn't usually needed. If the TOG isn't rich when revving in neutral it will probably be too low when you load the engine, so that should be noted as well.