first, big thanks to Ewa and Jon for all your help. you guys have been great and have been there for us when needing help.

where getting a handle on what is going on and what is needed. the car bucked all weeekend long and would not run but we figured out a few things on fuel demand based on kpa. the car in vacuum state would start to buck big time around 2500 to about 4500. the afr would go amazingly lean, it shows lean with reading like 35;1, 70;1 spikes. theres so much fuel in this range that it is showing lean; rich lean.

so, here is what we figured out and are understanding more clearly how the two values, TOG/IOT, interact with each other. (it takes a while for this to sink in haha). We understand the linear line for fuel demand is based on the engines requirements for 100% ve and hence why all the zero's are shown. at first im thinking there should be something more then zero's there but now i understand what is happening with the ve table.

the issue we are having and finally figured out last night after discussing the events that occured during our runs is in vacuum state we need to take fuel away in the ve table when the engine is in vacuum state. just drivng down the road and giving it throttle it woiuld huck and buck. with it showing lean we added fuel below the theoretical linear fuel demand line.

we know fully understand how the IOT affects the theoretcal fuel demand line as well. in hindsight, we probably should of set the IOT to a negative value to take fuel away in vacuum state but now we feel that the IOT should be left at zero. our reasoning is that if the IOT was a negative number to take fuel away in vacuum state that it might be lean when it goes to a boost state. we dont want to split any cylinders right now as just got it running. we think that by leaving the IOT at zero, or close to it, that the fuel can be taken away via the VE table and then when it does begin to make boost there will be no issues with damage to the engine because of being in a lean state. we backed off the timing anyways to 24 deg as based on past experience with our carburated turbo setup this is a safe area to be to a certain point when it comes to lighting the fuel and not worry about pre-ignition.... hence split cylinders.

on our last run yesterday i broke through the huck and buck state and it started to run!!!!! yeah... so were excited for next weekend as we have sometnig to look forward too with tuning in a boosted state.

i think on the newb post in this section Jon outlines how to calculate the TOG. im going create an excel spreadsheet to calculate what the theoretical TOG is through out the rpm/kpa range. then im going to create a spreadsheet of what we think the horsepower is at what rpm up to where it goes to boost state and use that for fuel demand under the theoretical demand line is. also, we will look at what we think the hp is in boosted state based on X boost.

this is a HUGE turbo for this engine, the engine is spolling to 10lbs imidiatly around 4500 to 5k, which is what we were hoping for.

just wanted to say thiank you for your help.

ty
dean

First time EM/WinTEC tuners often find it quite difficult and get big percentage swings in their VE tables. They later understand TOG/IOT and discover that their tune could have been much easier and more manageable had they better understood IOT and TOG from the beginning.

The way I like to illustrate EM way of handling VE to others is to set the VE table to zeros, go Tools/ShowInjectorPulseWidth then Tools/Graph. This is what the underlying fuel map looks like. TOG defines how steep the graph is while IOT shifts the entire graph up and down. When I begin a new config I first determine how much fuel (in pulsewidth) what the engine needs at idle and at peak HP (usually with a quick/rough tune of the running engine). I then use a zeroed VE table and change IOT and TOG values until I get my desired pulsewidths at appropriate idle and WOT kPa's. Once this is done I begin to tune the engine.

After looking at the logs a LOT today we noticed the MAP enrichment was on and adding 100percent gama (for .5sec at 1kpa rate of change........)to a already fat afr. This is where the issue was im positive. I dont believe the TOG can be THAT close on this engine and not require some enrichment or VE tuning. Small cc's big TB and BIIIIGGGG turbo mean the motor dont work till 5000rpm.

But I would love it if I am wrong. I will say this, once I changed a few values in the table under vac and lower rpm the motor responded immediately. This was after messing with the TOG and IOT a lot.

made progress today. went out first run and did same thing it did last time we went out. it hucked and bucked.... for what ever reason we didnt get a log on that run so we looked at my prologger whch is the boost controller with a built in 02 sensor. we looked at the log on that and discovered it was way lean in vacuum state throughout the rpm range. jeff through a ton of fuel at it in this area, below 90kpa (guessing).

went out next run and it just took off, ran nice and smooth. its way lean and neds more fuel. jeff increased the tog, i think its at like 13.xx, close to 14? had trouble downloading the log but he got it. ran 120mph, shifted at 5300 in first, didnt go over 6500. was total ellated (sp?) with it, jumping up and down excited; our first real pass.

through another MS in tog and went out last run, didnt get log for whatever reason but looking at the prologger it is still way lean, 16:1, want 11.5 max. ran 125 mph . timing can be increased about 5 deg easy and with afr richended up there is lots more power to make. this is on 10lbs of boooooost.

ty