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 Post subject: E85
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:42 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:45 pm
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Location: Knoxville, TN
Anyone here running E85?


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 Post subject: Re: E85
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:43 pm 
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Location: Dearborn, Michigan
Super XR7 wrote:
Anyone here running E85?


Yep. Very happy with it so far.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:57 pm 
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Location: Everywhere In, FL
same here

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:31 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:45 pm
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Location: Knoxville, TN
good to hear. Did you have any unexpected issues? Any issues with the TEC setup? How did your timing curve change from gasoline? What size injectors are you using with gas and with alcohol? I was using 75 lbs with gas and now it appears that I need 160s which I bought but not have put in. I am the beginning of the change over and any help would be appricated.

Mike


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:43 am 
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Location: Knoxville, TN
No lessons learned that can be shared?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:50 pm 
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Location: Dearborn, Michigan
Super XR7 wrote:
No lessons learned that can be shared?


Sorry -I've been out f town. I haven't had any big issues - in general the timing requirements are very similar to gasoline, so you can use the same timing map. If you were having to dial out a lot of timing to reduce ping with gasoline, you can probably dial some timing back in.

As far as fuel goes, a good starting point is to add 30% fuel across the board (i.e. multiply both IOT (POT) and TOG by 1.3) - you should make sure that your pump and injectors can supply this. A good target AFR for max power is 6.97, which is quite a bit richer vs. stoich than you can usefully go with gas. Stoich is 9.77:1, and I've been able to go as lean as 11.5-12:1 on cruise to recover some semblance of fuel economy.

You should also note that your Wintec display is calibrated for gasoline (stoich = 14.64), so you'll have to do some conversion for E85 AFRs. Your EGO sensor doesn't measure AFRs directly. It is really measuring "Lambda", which is normalized to stoich (stoich = 1, lean is > 1, rich is <1). The Wintec software then multiplies the lambda value by 14.64 (stoich for gasoline) to get AFR. So, when you are running 6.97 AFR with E85, your Lambda value is 9.77/6.97 = 0.713. Since Wintec ASSumes you are running gas, it will display 0.713*14.64 = 10.44 AFR. Hopefully that makes sense.

I've been able to find some useful info on E85 here:
http://e85forum.com

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Information is not knowledge
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Wisdom is not truth
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:18 am 
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Location: Knoxville, TN
Thank you. That info is a big help. As I start the tuning I am sure I will have more questions, this gets me going in the right direction.

Mike


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:10 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:42 am
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Location: Haysville , Ks
Quote:
Since Wintec ASSumes you are running gas, it will display 0.713*14.64 = 10.44 AFR.



So on the AFR Table Display would you change all the cells that display 14.6 to 10.44?

Sorry I'm just a little lost here but I learn quick...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:19 pm 
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Location: Dearborn, Michigan
Gary Voyles wrote:
Quote:
Since Wintec ASSumes you are running gas, it will display 0.713*14.64 = 10.44 AFR.



So on the AFR Table Display would you change all the cells that display 14.6 to 10.44?

Sorry I'm just a little lost here but I learn quick...


The 10.44 number is for the max power parts of your AFR table, and will equate to 6.97 actual AFR for E85. Part throttle will still read 14.64 as before (but will actually equate to 9.77), and if you want to run a bit lean on light loads then use 15 or 16 (which will actually be 10 to 10.67 AFR on E85)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:57 am 
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Location: Haysville , Ks
Okay,makes sense now. So max power rich is 6.97 max power lean is 8.47 if I'm in the 7.5-7.7 (11.24afr) range I should be good 'til I can get on the dyno next week.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:12 pm 
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Location: Dearborn, Michigan
Gary Voyles wrote:
Okay,makes sense now. So max power rich is 6.97 max power lean is 8.47 if I'm in the 7.5-7.7 (11.24afr) range I should be good 'til I can get on the dyno next week.


Sounds like you've got it. Unlike Gasoline, E85 continues to make more power with richer mixtures, so I'd recommend staying on the 6.97 side of things if you can. The richer mixtures supposedly give the full advantage of the 105 octane rating, too.

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Information is not knowledge
Knowledge is not wisdom
Wisdom is not truth
-FZ, Joe's Garage


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